Style questions

All linguistics can be discussed here -- this is the place to go to for discussion of how character names, item names, etc., should be translated.
sarahd
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:05 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by sarahd » Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:22 pm

Hello Everyone,

I guess I've been one of those translators who's been lurking in the shadows and working. (I'm not sure how long now, a few weeks? Hello! ^.^) I have looked at the forums before, but wanted to wait until I sort of got through most of the posts before I said anything. (I find these kinds of forums really hard to follow sometimes...but I'll do my best!)

So, to join in to what seems to be the general conversation at the moment:

1. 花組 I think "Flower Division" is fine. Especially since the English Wikipedia page for the Sakura Wars franchise uses this terminology. (ie. "The original story line, said to be inspired by the Shochiku Revue and Takarazuka Revue, takes place in an alternate 1920s Tokyo. It follows the adventures of an all-female secret task force known as the Imperial Assault Force—Flower Division as they defend the Imperial Capital Tokyo against evil.")

2. 帝都 I personally prefer just "the capital." I think it does the job. But it also seems from the Wikipedia page that it has been referred to as the "Imperial capital Tokyo" in English.

3. 帝劇 "Imperial Combat Revue", I like, especially to honor the supposed Takarazuka inspiration. (Although, if we really were going to honor it, we would probably translate 花組 as Flower Troupe, as they do in English for the actual Takarazuka 花組, however, there is perhaps only a vague connection between the two, anyway...). But, again, we have an offering from Wikipedia "Imperial Assault Force." Not that we have to follow Wikipedia - I just know that people have mentioned consistency other translations before.

4. I 100% support "Chief" for Yoneda and "Captain" for Ogmai. I was actually wondering how people were translating 少尉? I know the translation is "Ensign" but I find the usage to be really awkward in English. Sometimes "sir" works but not always (at least, in my opinion). I was kind of experimenting with Kanna's use of 少尉 and translating it as "boss." But this style probably only works for a few characters.

5. お兄ちゃん Perhaps it's best to be consistent in this case and use some kind of English here. I like the idea "Uncle X." It's cute and perhaps a bit more natural-sounding than the literal "Big Brother" might be?

Interested in hearing everyone's opinion and making translation decisions! :)

eben
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:36 am

Re: Style questions

Post by eben » Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:57 pm

Small style question. Do you guys keep ellipses as they are in the Japanese? I think they use a lot more than we do in English and to me it looks a bit ugly to have more than three dots "..." at a time. I don't mind either way though.

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CrouchingMouse
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by CrouchingMouse » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:33 pm

sarahd wrote:
Tue Aug 21, 2018 11:22 pm
3. 帝劇 "Imperial Combat Revue", I like, especially to honor the supposed Takarazuka inspiration. (Although, if we really were going to honor it, we would probably translate 花組 as Flower Troupe, as they do in English for the actual Takarazuka 花組, however, there is perhaps only a vague connection between the two, anyway...). But, again, we have an offering from Wikipedia "Imperial Assault Force." Not that we have to follow Wikipedia - I just know that people have mentioned consistency other translations before.

4. I 100% support "Chief" for Yoneda and "Captain" for Ogmai. I was actually wondering how people were translating 少尉? I know the translation is "Ensign" but I find the usage to be really awkward in English. Sometimes "sir" works but not always (at least, in my opinion). I was kind of experimenting with Kanna's use of 少尉 and translating it as "boss." But this style probably only works for a few characters.
Hi, welcome! It's good to have you. ^^ I just wanted to pipe in with these two points.

3. It seems like the consensus is "Imperial Combat Revue", so that's what I've started translating it as - though I am working on a block of text from the very beginning of the game where Ogami sees the plaque in Yoneda's office with the kanji, and I translated that as "Imperial Opera Revue" just to get the point across. But I'm actually wondering if we should use "Flower Troupe" instead of "Flower Division", since it's a name the theater patrons know them by as well, and "troupe" sounds more natural for a group of actors than "division". Something to consider.

4. I've mostly been leaving it as "Ensign", to be honest. Sumire calls Ogami "Ensign" almost exclusively (because she can't remember his name), so it's almost like a nickname at that point. Maria refers to him as "Ensign" a lot too, but since she has a military background, it would make more sense for it to be translated as "sir" in many cases. I'll go back through what I've already translated and see if I could replace the word if it seems too clunky, but I don't feel like we necessarily need to avoid using it at all costs or anything.

Regarding Yoneda though: I am REALLY confused as to how to have characters refer to him. His rank is Lieutenant General, and everyone but Ogami calls him "manager", but there are also times when he's called "chief" (長官)? and for some reason the style sheet says that Ogami should call him "commander". Could we come to a solid consensus on which terms are appropriate to use when? I'd really rather not have us decide last-minute and then have to go back through everything and replace words, hoping I didn't miss anything...
eben wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:57 pm
Small style question. Do you guys keep ellipses as they are in the Japanese? I think they use a lot more than we do in English and to me it looks a bit ugly to have more than three dots "..." at a time. I don't mind either way though.
I agree. I've been deleting extra ellipses and shortening them to three dots, and even taking them out in some places. It makes the text look cleaner and more snappy.

masonvd27
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:49 am

Re: Style questions

Post by masonvd27 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:34 pm

eben wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 4:57 pm
Small style question. Do you guys keep ellipses as they are in the Japanese? I think they use a lot more than we do in English and to me it looks a bit ugly to have more than three dots "..." at a time. I don't mind either way though.
Good question. I've been leaving it to three ... style. There are often cases where the original has six or more but it looks cluttered to me.

A question in a similar vein. How should we style the translation of stuttered syllables?

Here's an example line I've got:

は、はやく帰って治療しないとク、ク、ク、クモの毒が!

Should we use commas for those, like in the Japanese? I'm having a hard time remembering but I feel like a lot of English translations use dashes?

So something like

We must q,quickly get back and treat this or else the s,s,s,spiders venom will...!!

or

We must q-quickly get back and treat this or else the s-s-s-spiders venom will...!

Personally, I think the dashes look better but I thought I'd run it past you guys so that we're consistent.

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CrouchingMouse
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:51 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by CrouchingMouse » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:42 am

masonvd27 wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 7:34 pm
A question in a similar vein. How should we style the translation of stuttered syllables?
I've been using dashes, myself. I don't ever remember seeing stuttered syllables written with commas in English.

Matatabi
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:41 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by Matatabi » Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:30 pm

Here's a fun one

六破星降魔陣

This is what the big bad is aiming to create; it's basically a big magical symbol with 6 points that will bring about global destruction. I don't know if it showed up in the anime or not or what it may have been translated as there. My attempt is:

Devil's Hexagram of the Fallen Star

A super literal rendering of each kanji would go: Six Claw Star Fall Demon Camp.

I feel like we may not need to translate the devil camp bit, and could just make it Hexagram of the Fallen Star but I'd like to hear opinions.

CDC64
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:23 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by CDC64 » Thu Sep 27, 2018 6:25 pm

Matatabi wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 4:30 pm
Devil's Hexagram of the Fallen Star

A super literal rendering of each kanji would go: Six Claw Star Fall Demon Camp.

I feel like we may not need to translate the devil camp bit, and could just make it Hexagram of the Fallen Star but I'd like to hear opinions.
I like "Hexagram of the Fallen Star", or maybe play around with the word order for something like "Fallen Star Hexagram" if that makes it flow a little better. I agree that we don't need to translate every single aspect of the JP name.

Alternatively, maybe instead of "Fallen Star," go for "Fallen One"? Just thinking about how the Devil is a fallen angel, sometimes called Morningstar, and the main villain here is named Satan, maybe that was what they were going for with the 星降 part.

Matatabi
Posts: 30
Joined: Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:41 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by Matatabi » Fri Sep 28, 2018 4:06 pm

Oh wait, actually I was splitting up the kanji wrong. It should actually be 六破星 降魔陣. So 'six-clawed star + demon invocation circle'. So maybe Hexagram of Demonic Invocation. Or Demon Summoning Hexagram.

Or we could dress it up a bit more:

Hexagram of Infernal Calling
Hellraiser Hexagram
Hexagram of the Devils' Call
etc

Let me know what you folks think.

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CrouchingMouse
Posts: 24
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Re: Style questions

Post by CrouchingMouse » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:52 pm

Whoa, that's a mouthful all right. I like the idea of dressing it up, given how theatrical (and slightly hammy) the game's plot can be. One idea might be to call the hexagram itself a "star", since it looks like one, to make it a bit more poetic. So you'd have the Star of Infernal Calling, or etc. Otherwise Hexagram of Infernal Calling is my favorite of the ones you came up with.

Eien Ni Hen
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:46 pm

Re: Style questions

Post by Eien Ni Hen » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:19 pm

六破星降魔陣 is hard as hell to translate. I originally rendered it as "Six Fallen Stars," but I think "Hexagram of Infernal Calling" fits much better. :lol:

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